°ëµºÌåÓý

It has been the show of dreams, about the ship of dreams. Kind of. Off-Broadway smash hit °Õ¾±³Ù²¹²Ôí±ç³Ü±ð, which is readying to play its final performance (capping off a nearly three-year run) at the Daryl Roth Theatre June 29, sends up the seminal 1997 blockbuster film Titanic, setting it to a soundtrack of songs made famous by—who else?—Céline Dion. And for good measure, Dion narrates the story, because, obviously, she was there.

In the grand tradition of your Little Shop of Horrors, Avenue Q, and countless other Off-Broadway little-shows-that-could, °Õ¾±³Ù²¹²Ôí±ç³Ü±ð started in the humblest of ways, performing over Zoom and at a handful of one-night-only concert engagements in LA and NYC before it came to what felt then like the biggest stage it could ever hope to achieve: the Asylum Theatre, in the basement of a Gristedes grocery store. The show quickly transferred to the much larger Daryl Roth Theatre in Union Square, where it ran for nearly three years an inspired several satellite productions in London (where it won the much coveted Olivier Award), Paris, Canada, Chicago, and more—this voyage is worldwide.

Back to say goodbye to the Off-Broadway run are co-writers and original stars Marla Mindelle (as Céline) and Constantine Rousouli (as Jack). °ëµºÌåÓý caught up with the two, plus fellow co-writer and director Tye Blue, just after Mindelle and Rousouli began their return engagement in the musical to find out what their °Õ¾±³Ù²¹²Ôí±ç³Ü±ð journey has been like, and what they hope is next.

The conversation below has been edited for clarity and length.

Take me back to the beginning. Where does this show come from?
Marla Mindelle: God. His gay, deranged brain.

Constantine Rousouli: We were doing these parody musicals of movies in L.A. at this place called Rockwell Table and Stage. We were doing Scream at the time, and I was two martinis deep, and I turned to [Marla] and said, “The next show we should do is Titanic with Céline Dion songs, and you should be Céline.�

Mindelle: And I was like, “No. Never gonna happen.�

Rousouli: And then that night, the spirit of Jesus Christ came through my body and I made an outline, and it just started rolling from there. And then we got Ty [Blue] involved, our director, and we started watching the movie again. And it just miraculously worked in the gay musical theatre world, which we are so happy about.

I mean the clear follow-up is: What is wrong with gay people that this is what we spend our evenings thinking about?
Mindelle: So much.

Rousouli: We’re mentally—no, you know what? I think we’re special. We’re magical unicorns, because no basic-ass straight person would do this.

Mindelle: The wild thing about it being so queer and having such a fanbase in the LGBTQIA+ community is that it was never meant to be that. We were just writing it to make each other laugh, doing all of our inside jokes. And then when people saw it, they were like, "Oh my God this is the gayest thing we’ve ever seen." That was an added bonus.

Yeah, tell me about discovering the gay following this show attracted.
Rousouli: We’re all gay or queer, so I think it comes naturally for us.

Mindelle: The gays were first. They have their finger on the pulse. If it’s not, you know, snorting a drug. I think gay people know exactly what’s cool before it’s cool. Bowen [Yang] and Matt [Rogers] of Las Culturistas and SNL were the first people to see the show. They thought it was incredible and put it on their podcast. And soon, every little gay man and gay woman was flocking to the basement of a Gristedes when we first opened, at the Asylum Theatre three years ago. And within six weeks, it was not only gay people, but also 70-year-old women who came up to me and would say, “I want to tell you something. I hate musicals. I hate Céline Dion. I fucking love this show.â€� It just has massive appeal for everyone. I think even if you don’t understand the hyper queer jokes, there’s jokes for anyone and everyone.

Titanic does seem like the perfect thing to be sending up, because even if you’re not obsessed with it, who on the planet hasn’t seen Titanic?
Mindelle: Correct.

Rousouli: Gen Alpha. And they can choke.

Tye Blue: I think the warm embrace of nostalgia is a big part of the success. We combined two things that the world loves deeply, Céline and Titanic, put a modern stamp on it and wrapped it in a big, gay bow. We didn’t foresee the mass appeal or global rollout scenario, because we weren’t thinking about the marketing value. Looking back, it does add up, though. Also: timing.

Did you have any challenges getting permissions and rights to use the songs?
Blue: Triggered. Oh yes. We lost three of the songs that were originally in the script, “It’s All Coming Back to Me Now,� “Power of Love,� and “That’s the Way It Is.� Among those was our opening and closing numbers, so we had to totally rewrite both of those for Off-Broadway.

So tell me what those audiences have been like? What’s the most unhinged behavior you’ve witnessed?
Rousouli: Honestly, I would say our first preview was one of the craziest moments of both our careers. Just being there and having people right after a pandemic all in masks, so you can’t see their fucking faces, in this tiny-ass basement of a Gristedes. And we had no idea how it was going to go off because we’d been in a pandemic for two years. We really thought it could go either way, and it ended up being the most phenomenal thing that has ever happened.

Mindelle: It wasn’t a response that I’ve ever heard in my life, and we’ve both been in musical theatre schools for…too long, at this point. It was overwhelming, and we were all just like I think we’re onto something here.

Blue: There were little signs along the way that we had something. Because I produced it myself for the first few years, the one-offs always had to pay for themselves—and they mostly broke even, or came close enough. Realizing then that the occasional one-offs were sustainable was an initial sign to me, and allowed me to keep rolling them out. 

Then, when an angel investor helped me get it to Green Room 42, I thought maybe I can drum up some enthusiastic partners to grow this. Then when we sold out the run at Green Room 42, that investor got paid back, and I felt like we had a business on our hands. At Green Room 42, Eva Price told us she really wanted to produce it, so then we went into negotiations with her, which felt like we had officially made it. But even then...you never know! The first performance at the Asylum was one of the most electric nights of my (dare I say the show's) life. It was magic. But then, we didn't really sell that well for our first few weeks. So I thought we were closing early. Then some press hits landed and we started selling out. But once it got to the point where you could not get a ticket for like, six weeks at the Asylum, then I knew we had eclipsed all fantasies and was very proud of everyone. Long story short: There was a range of benchmarks along the way.

Could you have ever imagined when you started this that you would one day be watching replacement actors in your roles?
Rousouli: No! We honestly thought it was going to be a three-month, cute little run in the basement of a Gristedes, and we would wash our hands of it.

Mindelle: My hope was for it to be successful in New York, but I could have never imagined what happened after New York, where we are now, which is three years in New York, London, Paris, Canada, Chicago�

Rousouli: Bus, club, another club, no sleep.

Mindelle: We’re going to be playing in Gag City, Chromatica in 2028, and those gay aliens are going to fucking love it. And not only that, but to have every single award that you can possibly get, besides a Tony. And only because we haven’t been on Broadway yet. That is crazy to me, too. That is the most surreal part. We thought it would be a great run in New York, but we could have never imagined that it would have this global takeover, and with everyone responding the same exact way as New York. It’s crazy.

Rousouli: Seeing it all over the world, bananas. How our stupid inside jokes translate to the French crowd, to the West End crowd, to Montreal, which is super French Canadian. It’s been incredible.

When writers star in their own work, I think it gets that feeling that it only works with them in the cast. But that just really hasn’t been true here. I’ve seen it with several casts and it’s been the same kind of funny.
Mindelle: I think it’s a testament to the book, if you can have other people come in and you’re still laughing. It’s a testament to how clever it all is. Like Conny was saying, that it translates into different languages, even. Funny is funny, no matter who’s doing it, no matter what language it’s in.

Blue: As a director, it's always a challenge to replicate and scale things that are built on very specific people in a very specific space, and replicating the tone and detail of this show in other markets back-to-back-to-back has been one of the hardest things I've ever done, honestly, but I'm very proud of all of the companies. I've also learned the show is very malleable in terms of its jokes and bits. We curated new pop-culture references and localizations in every new city, with the input of those local teams and casts, so that it felt specific to that audience, which has been really fun and kept it alive for me. I've obviously learned a ton about what works best across production departments, venues, marketing strategies, PR approaches, and casting, but that's a novel for another day for my fellow nerds.

What is it like seeing other people do the show?
Rousouli: They’re fucking amazing. We’re such sticklers about comedy, and you need to be able to sing your goddamn face off. I think what makes the show special is you really have to be a comedian who sings, because it is such a fast book and the tone is so specific. If people don’t get rhythms and rhymes and the way to deliver a joke, you can’t really teach it. It’s that extra spice on top that makes the show special and makes these actors special, because they can do it. Everybody can sing these days. You could have people singing circles around everybody. It’s finding the comedic geniuses that was exciting to us, and it’s been so lovely to see.

Marla and Conny, now that you are both back in the show, are you stealing anything from anyone else you’ve seen do the roles?
Mindelle: Absolutely not. And you know why? We’re the O.G. girls, and we’re deeply problematic. We have our own thing. We set things in stone, and everyone should be stealing from us, not the other way around.

Rousouli: Tea.

Mindelle: Tea.

Rousouli: We built it off our type of humor, and the weird, kooky, crazy moments that we have in real life.

Mindelle: And also our 20-year friendship! Like last night, we came back into the show, so we had a lot of friends and family there. And they were like, “The chemistry between the two of you…it was so good seeing the two of you back together. It just can’t be replicated.� That’s probably the hardest thing, in terms of re-casting. We have a shared brain, DNA, from living together, working together. I know him better than anyone. Being able to share that on stage and share comedic instincts is something that does not come by easily.

Does seeing other productions happen, particularly the prospect of non-replica productions that don’t involve you at all—what does that feel like?
Blue: Excited and scared. I want it to live a long, licensed life, but it's a very easy piece to over-act, so we're just nervous people are going to license it and do very hokey iterations. I'm also nervous they'll just cast "comedians" and forego singers as a priority. The love story, the vocals, the musicality are all very important to me. Céline must be honored, you know? I'd like to show up to a production in Omaha in five years and see it really operating on all cylinders.

Mindelle: I won’t lie to you—it’s hard. I always say it’s like putting Moses out to sea, putting Moses in a basket, letting him float away, and seeing what diva Pharaoh wants to pick him up. It’s hard. No one tells you about that, what it’s going to be like when you have a commercial hit and then you have to give up the thing that has been your dream and your baby for nearly a decade.

Rousouli: And seeing other people who we’ve paved the way for getting nominated for huge awards and things like that. And you’re like, "That’s incredible, I’m so happy for them." And you’re also like, "We did that. I wish that could have been us."

Mindelle: We want to do it everywhere. But unfortunately, we’re too old.

Rousouli: And tired. And broken. I got a bad back, and a bad attitude.

Mindelle: But I think if we could hope for anything, it would be for the show to continue to have a life and go everywhere. We’d love to sit back and make some decent money off of it, so that lets us write our next thing. That’s really the hope and goal when it gets to this point, to be able to pull a Lin-Manuel Miranda and sit back for a little bit after a very hard chapter that can fund the next adventure.

What do you think people looking to do °Õ¾±³Ù²¹²Ôí±ç³Ü±ð in the future need to know? What’s the most important part of making it work?
Rousouli: We were just talking about this in our rehearsals to come back—keep the stakes high, but be grounded, and speak like an actual human. You have to remember where it’s rooted from. It’s funny, it’s crazy, yes. But you have to play the polar opposite in order for the jokes to land. If you put a hat on a hat, add bit after bit, it ruins everything. You have to play the truth. And if you play the truth, I guarantee you people will be laughing their fucking asses off. And by the end of “My Heart Will Go On,� they’ll be crying, and the whole show will have feeling and heart.

Mindelle: Yes! Very good, Conny—Julie Taymor!

Blue: Hire incredible singers who can deliver the text in a nuanced, charming, and authentic way. Also don't build a ship or re-enact the tragedy. Stay in the pure concert joy space.

Rousouli: And granted, I am the person who likes to push things sometimes, and Ty’s always been so great to tell us when we’re getting a little too slap happy. And we’re always like, you’re right. Let’s get back to the text. ³Û´Ç³Ü’r±ð not funny, it is. When it sticks to that formula, it truly is just next level.

Does coming back to it feel different, or is it like riding a bike?
Mindelle: I just told someone last night, I could have a lobotomy tomorrow, and I would remember every single fucking word. It is burned into my brain and retinas. We did one rehearsal, and we were both like, we could go on tonight. That being said, coming back two years later, we had to get our stamina up. Backstage is completely different. It’s a different cast. So it does feel weird, almost like time traveling, and everything is different except for us. But I don’t think I’ll ever forget this show. When we go all over the world and we’ve not been in it for years, the downbeat hits, and I know every single beat.

Rousouli: Yes! When the music starts, your brain goes exactly to where it’s supposed to be. When we were first doing the scenes on our feet again, we’d start in the middle, and I was lost. I’d have them play the background music, and all of a sudden, I know exactly where we are. It’s embedded in our brains. My pants are tighter. My moose knuckle is bigger. So I don’t know what happened over those two years.

Mindelle: I did see his moose knuckle.

Rousouli: The pants are way too tight this time around. I was like, am I serious? It looked like the craziest moose knuckle. So everybody, when you come back, look out. Let me tell you, she is right up my ass, and it’s 90 minutes of me picking a wedgie.

What will you take from °Õ¾±³Ù²¹²Ôí±ç³Ü±ð to the rest of your career?
Blue: To choose projects that really excite me and to build them from a place of joy. To silence my inner saboteur and trust that I will add value to any new project. To take time and care with all decisions as a writer and director—and to handle those decisions with grace and objectivity.

What about the °Õ¾±³Ù²¹²Ôí±ç³Ü±ð journey has surprised you the most?
Mindelle: Oh, going to London and winning the Olivier. All the awards were a constant surprise, because, again, it feels like a 90-minute inside joke. The other thing that surprised me the most if that when we were in London, if I’m on the street, there is somebody that comes up to me and says they’ve seen it seven times. And I’m like, "How did you get the money? But thank you, because you’ve kept us going for the last three years." There are so many people that are deeply, deeply in love with the show.

Rousouli: Which is, again, a testament to our writing. The Oliviers were the most incredible night of our lives. But to see people say things like thatâ€� Our objective from the beginning was to make people laugh. We’re in a hard enough time. We were coming out of a pandemic, everything on fire. And to have people laugh and come and forget about that—that’s our number one goal. What’s surprised me the most is that everybody’s having the best time everywhere we do it.

Blue: For me, it's basically taken over my life. I mean, I directed five new companies in eight months—wtf?!—and am now back in London putting in the new cast. It's been a °Õ¾±³Ù²¹²Ôí±ç³Ü±ð-Groundhog Day collab for the past year. Where am I? What cast is this? What time zone am I in? Is my mom awake right now? What's this Rose's name? Which jewelry store name are we using here? What's this associate designer's name again? It's been very odd. But it's also put me in rooms with amazing people who are enthusiastic about building new shows with me, so that's been a nice surprise, too—very grateful. The whole Olivier journey and win was a massive shock as well. Out of body experience.

Mindelle: It’s exceeded everyone’s expectations and been so successful. Even though we’re closing now, this is a ship that doesn’t sink. I have a feeling that this is still going to go all over the world and have multiple encores, reprises.

Rousouli: Fingers crossed we keep going and we end up on Broadway one day. I’m saying here I hope that happens.

See photos of the original cast of °Õ¾±³Ù²¹²Ôí±ç³Ü±ð below.

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